Systèmes et facilitation/Sous-titres vidéo F3/en

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,600 Avant-Cercle du facilitateur avec Duke Pratique des Cercles Restauratifs avec Dominic Barter

2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,440 At some point in the pre circle I just check in with Duke: "How's it going ?"

3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:14,060 Duke says "it's fine" and I say: - "Would you like some support?" - "No I'm good"

4 00:00:14,060 --> 00:00:16,560 And I don't believe him.

5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,200 - Smart. - Yeah.

6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,160 So I just keep on hassling him a little bit

7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:29,180 and I find ways to invite him to sit down with me and I might do facilitator pre circle

8 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:32,920 standing up at the water cooler. I might do it in the corridor.

9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,160 I don't necessarily need the same kind of formality that I might prefer

10 00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:41,840 if I was receiving people who'd initiated a restorative process because they have a conflict

11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,260 that they want to see happen in in a restorative circle.

12 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:49,280 This might be something that we might do in the car driving home or like I said on the phone.

13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,010 What's important for me is I want to remember that the facilitator

14 00:00:54,010 --> 00:00:59,880 is fundamentally a member of the community. There are not four specific roles in the circle.

15 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:06,640 There are three: author or authors, receiver or receivers, and the conflict community.

16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,480 And Duke is part of the conflict community.

17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:19,260 And it's in that capacity that we're meeting.

18 00:01:19,260 --> 00:01:23,080 - So how's it going to you? - Fine.

19 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:33,120 I'm wondering what's coming up for you around the circle, the restorative process

20 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,440 that you're working with at the moment?

21 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:41,940 I'm noticing I have a hell of lot of stories and hopelessness

22 00:01:41,940 --> 00:01:48,580 around the author being willing to participate.

23 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:57,020 Because in in this situation as in all conflicts

24 00:01:57,020 --> 00:02:01,160 but it's very clear that the person who initiated also was the author

25 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:07,520 although the way the event was described that person is a receiver.

26 00:02:08,980 --> 00:02:12,820 So when you look at the act you're looking at them as a receiver

27 00:02:12,820 --> 00:02:16,080 but when you look inside, you're moved,

28 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,740 stimulated by the things that they did. Is that right?

29 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,740 Yeah. That it has… I lack of a better term… equal weight

30 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:30,300 to whatever they're saying this other person did.

31 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:34,820 And so when the act is framed in that way I'm telling myself that the other person

32 00:02:34,830 --> 00:02:38,920 is never gonna want to participate given the act framed in this way.

33 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:40,980 - Yeah.

34 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:45,880 And what is that idea that you have about that act ?

35 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:55,820 And what is the image that you form about the person or about the act itself when you look at it?

36 00:02:55,829 --> 00:03:02,880 Is there a way to pinpoint something that kind of that serves as a gateway for emotionally

37 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,540 what's moving you in relation to this?

38 00:03:07,540 --> 00:03:09,500 I'm not sure what you mean?

39 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:12,680 I'm wondering if, when you look at the act, if you see it in a certain way

40 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:16,500 or when you look at that person you see them in a certain way

41 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:19,000 and there's a way to sum that up.

42 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,040 Closed.

43 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,580 - That's how I see that person. - Right.

44 00:03:26,580 --> 00:03:35,260 So in pre circle land, that's the act. It's Duke's act it's the way he's seeing things

45 00:03:35,260 --> 00:03:39,200 it's that singular doorway through which we're gonna, I'm gonna focus.

46 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,840 Because he said there are lots of things happening but then there's that word "closed".

47 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,540 And for now that's enough specificity I don't need anything more

48 00:03:48,540 --> 00:03:52,560 I just wanted that as an anchor I'll probably just spend the rest of the time

49 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,360 hanging out with him.

50 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:07,180 And is that scary to look at that person and see them in that way?

51 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:13,240 Well there's a hopelessness in it, you know

52 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,860 because I have all dreams and visions of how this process could help and support them connect differently

53 00:04:17,860 --> 00:04:21,120 and see each other differently and then I'm telling myself

54 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:24,120 it's never gonna get off the ground because they're gonna say:

55 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,600 "Forget it. I'm not interested."

56 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,160 Yeah.

57 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:45,560 And there's sadness at me because I'm wanting to trust

58 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,620 the process and presence

59 00:04:52,639 --> 00:04:58,599 and also to be open to the fact that maybe in this situation the circle isn't

60 00:04:58,599 --> 00:05:06,610 the method or whatever the way that we're going to move forward

61 00:05:12,020 --> 00:05:17,410 so that does start to create some more openness in me

62 00:05:27,719 --> 00:05:35,099 so it's that I'm seeing because I've experienced and seen potential

63 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:39,280 and have dreams of even greater potential of this process that

64 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:41,807 I'm wanting it to work for everybody

65 00:05:41,807 --> 00:05:46,160 and so I'm seeing how I've closed down on the possibility that

66 00:05:46,169 --> 00:05:54,379 in this particular case it's okay whether they say yes or no.

67 00:05:59,699 --> 00:06:05,479 So "closed" was a good word Since I was the one who's closed.

68 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,360 that definitely gives me way more spaciousness

69 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,240 in going into meeting with that person

70 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:39,360 and more aliveness or excitement about the possibility

71 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:46,460 Because now whatever happen is okay. It's just what it is.

72 00:06:46,460 --> 00:06:48,940 Yeah.

73 00:06:59,590 --> 00:07:04,330 And as you look at the next steps that you're going to take is there anything

74 00:07:04,330 --> 00:07:10,139 that comes up around there that you can imagine receiving support for?

75 00:07:17,030 --> 00:07:22,310 Well one thing is coming to mind is just sharing this with my co-facilitator

76 00:07:22,310 --> 00:07:27,200 this experience even just now oh yeah I'm talking to this checking in with her about it

77 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,390 and stuff and seeing where she's at about this

78 00:07:31,390 --> 00:07:36,410 both sharing my experience but then also seeing where she's at doing the same

79 00:07:36,410 --> 00:07:40,280 that you're doing for me with her I would do for her

80 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,660 - exchanging it yeah for the both of you - yeah yeah

81 00:07:45,660 --> 00:07:50,360 Is there a kind of obvious moment when you might do that?

82 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,220 Yeah we're meeting next week:

83 00:07:54,220 --> 00:07:58,180 we had talked about meeting a little earlier ahead of the next pre circle

84 00:07:58,180 --> 00:08:04,440 I want to reinforce that and make sure that that does happen

85 00:08:07,490 --> 00:08:10,090 yeah

86 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:17,500 - That's all that's coming to mind - Cool

87 00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:22,860 - Thanks - All right thank you.

88 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:31,400 Wow that was hard work! [Laughs]

89 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,419 I'm joking about how little is necessary to be able

90 00:08:35,420 --> 00:08:39,980 to support someone in terms of, you know, words or thinking.

91 00:08:39,980 --> 00:08:47,060 …

92 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:53,460 So you knew it wouldn't work here because everyone knows

93 00:08:53,460 --> 00:08:57,800 If you break it down, it does look, I wonder if you were able to track it,

94 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,720 it does look pretty much like a pre circle

95 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,510 there's a particular point of entry there's the listening as you look forward

96 00:09:05,510 --> 00:09:09,620 to the processes or any other things that you think might come up for you

97 00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:13,640 is going over the process like we do with the participants

98 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:18,300 I didn't need to ask who might be able to support you with that piece

99 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,760 that might come up in the future because he already answered that question

100 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:27,560 but if he hadn't, if he'd said: "yeah, it's not such a big deal but I'm kind of nervous

101 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:32,440 about what's going to happen with the other pre circle after I'm with the author"

102 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,330 Then I would have said: "So is there anyone around who might be able

103 00:09:35,330 --> 00:09:39,080 to support you with that?" Which is the equivalent of: "who else needs to be there?"

104 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,510 I'm checking in with the folks and then, you know, "are we done?"

105 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:49,600 "Is that okay?" as a way of saying: "are we ready to move on?"

106 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:56,680 So that is still my guide but I'm not particularly worried about the questions

107 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:00,000 as specific ways to manifest it I just have that as a guide in my head.

108 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,360 those are the pieces that I more or less want to make sure that we cover.

109 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:09,700 In a situation in which someone is giving me a far more verbally explicit description

110 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:14,200 of what the other person has done wrong or what they themselves are lacking

111 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,720 in order to be able to facilitate or what a terrible situation, one unresolvable dilemma,

112 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,380 there being presented within the circle, then one of the things that I'll do,

113 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:31,020 is I'll more specifically verbalize to them the way in which I'm hearing them speak

114 00:10:31,020 --> 00:10:33,420 because I want to check with them

115 00:10:33,420 --> 00:10:37,020 if I'm really hearing them accurately because the distance between

116 00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:41,340 the words they're using and the dictionary meaning of those words

117 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:46,320 and the meaning that I'm receiving is greater than it was just now.

118 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,260 Duke's way of expressing himself was pretty close to what I was hearing.

119 00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:56,860 But when someone says: "Oh, god, another pre circle today! It's the same bloody family again!

120 00:10:56,860 --> 00:11:01,740 They never learn! Complete disaster, I don't know why I bother."

121 00:11:01,740 --> 00:11:07,960 There's a larger gap between the dictionary meaning of the words they're using

122 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,540 and what it is that I'm hearing.

123 00:11:11,540 --> 00:11:17,620 Do you use your NVC translation skills to put that in termes of feelings and needs?

124 00:11:17,620 --> 00:11:22,440 All the time as a facilitator I'm tracking meaning.

125 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,360 That's my primary activity. It's to track meaning.

126 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,900 So in this case I'm listening to that meaning arrive.

127 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:36,340 I get the wrapping but what I'm really interested in, is the present inside

128 00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:40,520 so the words are the wrapping the concepts are the wrapping

129 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:47,560 but what's inside if that makes sense to you, we can describe in terms of needs that are universal

130 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:50,620 if that doesn't make sense to you you describe it in other terms.

131 00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:54,350 Most of the people I work with don't have NVC as a reference point

132 00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:57,140 they have Christianity or they have something else.

133 00:11:57,140 --> 00:12:00,640 So they'll find a different way to describe exactly the same thing

134 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,920 as far as I can see, works just as well. NVC is just my particular doorway in.

135 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:13,400 So I'll find a way to verbalize what I'm hearing so that I can check with them if my hearing is accurate.

136 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,890 Does anyone else got any comments or observations

137 00:12:15,890 --> 00:12:20,640 that they'd like to share about what they saw just now with me and Duke?

138 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:27,040 I was really appreciating the quality of listening and I remember how effective it was

139 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:32,460 one of the times, I received that kind of listening support and I asked actively for it, in every case.

140 00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:39,260 And one time when I couldn't find it how I walked into the RC was completely different.

141 00:12:39,260 --> 00:12:41,060 Yeah.

142 00:12:41,060 --> 00:12:47,180 I didn't get it the other day, it's about three weeks now, I got a phone call late at night from a judge saying:

143 00:12:47,180 --> 00:12:52,840 "I've just been rung by the secretary of Education" of the state in which he lives.

144 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:58,700 A student has just stabbed another student in a school and they want you to be there by the morning."

145 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:03,400 So I packed my bag, woke up at 5:00, flew there,

146 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:08,280 then drove quite a long way inland to get to this small city

147 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:15,140 and 10 hours of pre-circle just one after the other

148 00:13:15,140 --> 00:13:23,280 and for the next morning, ready for the first circle and I was just leaving the place that I'd slept in

149 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:28,920 to get ready for the day, when I realized that I hadn't checked in with anybody

150 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,340 because it was just one after the other one after the other

151 00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:36,380 to get into the prison to be able to meet with the young man

152 00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:42,680 who'd stabbed his colleague was complicated the judge didn't want to allow it he was on holiday…

153 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:47,040 you know, there were things that would… hoops that we needed to jump through

154 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,600 and then when I got there and found out that he hadn't seen his parents for a week

155 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,240 I was the first person who'd spoken to him then I was like emotionally impacted as well

156 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,800 and while all these things were going on and very little sleep, I forgot to do that.

157 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,160 But someone had driven me there and luckily that person had participated

158 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,760 in a training a couple of years earlier so I kind of grabbed her over breakfast

159 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,200 and I said: "Could you… just five minutes could we spend?

160 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,530 You know, even if we're late, I'd spent five minutes together,

161 00:14:15,530 --> 00:14:20,400 I'd just like to tell you what's going on for me and get a sense that I'm clear before I go in."

162 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:26,140 And it was my saving grace and it wasn't enough.

163 00:14:26,140 --> 00:14:29,320 And I went in there and things were fine.

164 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:34,220 And it's so bizarre because I have a clear sense of what I'm going to do

165 00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:37,420 and as I maintained a clear sense of what I was going to do

166 00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:43,560 I heard my mouth doing something else. And I watched it happen,

167 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:49,660 and it was staggering because I did exactly what I would suggest to people that they don't do.

168 00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:53,800 Textbook, but you know, the other side of the textbook.

169 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,940 And I just watched it happen and then I watched the result

170 00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:01,580 and then I just sat there and thought "and now what am I going to do?"

171 00:15:01,580 --> 00:15:08,980 and it took about 25 minutes to clean up from one phrase.

172 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,260 And you know generally you look at it objectively it was pretty innocuous.

173 00:15:14,260 --> 00:15:19,080 You know I didn't say: "I agree with you we've got to get that bastard."

174 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:27,560 You know I said something which simply offered helpful advice to the mother of the stabbed student.

175 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:34,200 Something that would help her: "Just be a little bit more understanding of other people."

176 00:15:35,220 --> 00:15:37,220 [Laughs]

177 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:44,060 And it's kind of: this hole just opened in the floor, and I was just falling in…

178 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,600 I'm sorry?

179 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,360 What did you say? And would you have liked to say?

180 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:03,420 I said…

181 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:10,480 "I think there might be more of a context to this than you are aware"

182 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:16,840 And I meant: "Your son has been terrorizing this guy for three years

183 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,540 and just because you think he's perfect doesn't mean that it doesn't involve you too."

184 00:16:21,540 --> 00:16:27,660 That's what I meant, that's the energy. So the words don't sound too drastic

185 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:32,840 but the energy behind them, I think contributed. But the most important thing for me is that

186 00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:39,420 that's not one of the questions that I give myself. And now once again I realize

187 00:16:39,420 --> 00:16:46,910 why I bizarrely stick to only the questions that are on that sheet. Only.

188 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,680 it's not that I use them in the didactic form that I've given you them

189 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,100 because that's for learning purposes and for moments where you want absolute clarity

190 00:16:56,100 --> 00:17:01,820 and you want to go back to this. This is the clearest way that I found.

191 00:17:01,820 --> 00:17:08,180 But it helped me remember why I only say those things or colloquial versions of them

192 00:17:08,180 --> 00:17:12,060 because that apparently innocuous statement

193 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:16,920 completely unbalanced the power relationship in the circle.

194 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,340 Completely.

195 00:17:19,940 --> 00:17:24,480 And what I would have rather have said ? Nothing at all.

196 00:17:26,740 --> 00:17:31,320 I definitely needed support and I've rather that I had sought that support

197 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,500 by looking at my fingernail or reaching in my pocket

198 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:41,660 or there was a poster of… we were in the education secretary's office

199 00:17:41,660 --> 00:17:45,340 to have this circle because it was all kind of improvised at the last minute

200 00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:49,040 there was a poster with a photograph of Paulo Freire on the wall

201 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,840 so I wish I hadn't looked at Paolo at that moment.

202 00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:00,600 Can you tell us how you managed to get yourself back out of the hole ?

203 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,600 I went back to sticking to the process and it just took that long

204 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,720 before the relationship of trust was reestablished.